Good afternoon. Welcome to PCI's production workshop series. Today's workshop is Acceptability of Appearance, Internal and External Communication. This workshop is sponsored by Architectural Precast Committee. My name is Nicole Clout, Marketing Coordinator at PCI, and I will be your moderator for this session. Before I turn the controls over to your presenters for today, I have a few introductory items to note. All attendee lines are muted. The GoToWebinar toolbox has an area for you to raise your hand. If you raise your hand, you will receive a private chat message from me. If you have a question, please type it into the questions pane. Also, a pop-up survey will appear after the webinar ends. Earlier today, we sent a reminder email to all registered attendees that included a handout of today's presentation. That handout for this webinar can also be found in the handout section of your webinar pane. If you cannot download the handout, please email PCI Marketing at marketing at pci.org. Today's presentation will be recorded and uploaded to the PCI eLearning Center. PCI is a registered provider of AIA-CES, but today's presentation does not contain content that has been endorsed by AIA. Today's presentation is non-CEU. To start off the presentation, I would like to introduce Gary Reed, Architectural Precast Committee Chair. Thank you, Nicole, and welcome everybody that was able to join us here today. So, today's production management workshop is sponsored by the Architectural Precast Committee. I am Gary Reed, the Committee Chair. I work for API, or Architectural Precast Innovations. Scott Davis is our Committee Vice Chair with Enterprise. Lee Baker is our Committee Secretary. He's from GATE. Randy Wilson is the Director from Architectural Precast Systems, and Nicole, of course, is our moderator from PCI Marketing. Today is the workshop number nine for the Acceptability and Appearance, Internal and External Communications. Our presenters today will be Matthew Golvag. He's an architect and a principal at the DLR Group in Omaha, Nebraska. Martin Lane is an AIA business develop manager with Enterprise Precast Concrete out of Omaha. The Acceptability and Appearance series, today is the ninth of a series of them that we've already completed. Previous to this, we've had the Following the Process, Samples and Mockups, and Remedial Actions and Methods and Costs. These were recorded sessions, and I would encourage each and every one of you that didn't have the opportunity to attend those to go back and breeze through those and take a look, and let us know if you have any questions or comments relative to what you've seen. The link to those is listed here on the page. Well, thank you, Gary. I'll go ahead and kind of review a little bit. Sometimes this feels like I'm a flight attendant on an airplane. We review the agenda and the reasons why we're doing the virtual workshop for quite some time, but the idea behind a production management workshop is to get production management personnel from around the country together to build some camaraderie, build some networking, and allow for those production managers to talk to one another about maybe some concerns you have in your plants. Starting with COVID a couple years ago, we've moved these to a virtual webinar so that we can still continue to get the information out to the production managers. Hopefully, you're able to share these with some of your personnel, as opposed to traveling out to a face-to-face or in-person type meeting. And then also, we'll have them recorded so you can go back and refer to them at your leisure. That's why we put these together. The goals of these are to replace that in-person workshop. Hopefully, temporarily, we'd like to get back to face-to-face meetings as soon as possible. So, our format today, we have our speakers. They'll talk for about 40 minutes. We will have an open question and discussion period at the end, about 10 or 15 minutes. So if you do have any questions, just go ahead and send the questions in the chat box directly to me or Nicole. We'll pick them up and we'll start gathering those questions as they come through and ask them in the most appropriate times during the presentation. So again, a little bit of a review. This program will follow the PCI antitrust compliance guidelines along with our PCI coded conduct policies. Pretty easy to follow when we're on a controlled webinar. So if anybody's out there talking to each other, follow those processes, please. So this Acceptability of Appearance series is an extremely important series for the Architectural Precast Concrete Committee, especially on the heels of the new Architectural Certification Program. This is the number one question I get as the Director of Precast Services representing all of you when an architect or an owner or somebody from the general public calls about an Acceptability of Appearance question. It's not always a problem, but it's always a good question. And what we do is we refer back to our manuals, 116, 117, and 122. Sometimes we go back to 120, designer notebooks, et cetera. So if you familiarize yourself with these documents, or if you ever get a question from your customers, this is the place to go to. You'll see the same language that I see. You'll most likely come to the same conclusion that I will. So this is where we get all of our answers. It's very, very black and white. So the goal of this series has been to encourage each producer to develop a sampling process. Sampling process typically is one that's going to resolve most of the Acceptability of Appearance problems on a project because you're going to head them off at the pass. You're going to be able to sit with an architect. You're going to be able to look at your 12x12s, look at maybe a 3x5 or a 4x4, create some range samples, discuss what your limitations are. When an architect wants something that may be outside of the realm of what you've done in the past, it's giving you an opportunity to discuss with the architect what's realistic and maybe some ideas that they weren't aware of how you can accomplish some of their visual and aesthetic goals. So it's that relationship builder. And each project's different and each company's different. So it really needs to be a company-specific process that you follow from sales through estimating through project management on every single project. So we really encourage you to do that. And that's the number one goal of this entire series. So go back and watch those other ones if you've missed them. So today's discussion is going to be about these three major points. And these are kind of weave through all the questions that we have today. One is improve your messaging when promoting precast. You know, what does an architect want to know? I mean, sometimes an architect may come to your plant and what are they looking for? And what are you putting your best foot forward? Are you giving them the answers that they're looking for? Provide early design pre-construction support. Why is that helpful? And what is helpful and why? And then clearly communicate with our customers, the good, the bad, and hopefully preventing any of the ugly. And that's really kind of the main focus here is communicating with our customers. So we'll get right to the customer. So I'll introduce Matthew. Matthew is a 16-year practicing architect. You can tell he has a vast experience, vast education. His specialty is strategic and master planning for offices, mixed use development, industrial flex buildings, and parking garages. So he's done quite a few precast projects and we'll see some of his examples today. DLR Group is 100% employee owned, which is fantastic. I'd love to see that. It started over 55 years ago by two architects and an engineer, probably struggling and starving architects and engineers. Has that changed yet? But it's a global organization that focuses on integrated design. And I've seen a lot of DLRs work and they do a lot of cutting edge stuff. So I was going to throw a question out to Matt, and that is, you know, what experiences have you had to get you interested in learning about precast manufacturing as it relates to providing building owner solutions? Yeah, thanks, Randy. You know, for me as an architect, I'm truly passionate about process and all things process. And I think that stemmed from an experience when I was in college. To pay for college, I worked in a machine shop. It was a metal fabrication machine shop, but I really learned, you know, the efficiency of process in fabrication. And I think that can really inform design and it correlates to precast design as well. There's a lot of benefits in knowing the process as a design professional, so that we're making informed decisions when we're creating a building or designing a building for an owner. Excellent. Well, tell us a little bit about this project you guys did with McCarthy. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, I put together a variety of project examples and tried to think of some recent ones that are not like just all precast buildings and examples that, you know, kind of showcase, I guess, different explorations of precast and then the application of that. So we've worked with McCarthy quite a bit and we designed their headquarters here in Omaha a few years ago, which is shown on the screen here. And as design professionals, you know, we'll work with an owner to understand what their needs, wants, and goals are for a project. And we go through a visioning process to really understand what that is. And with McCarthy, their goal with this project was to showcase what they do as a contractor. So what we did was kind of embrace that idea and start to think about different materials and systems and how to represent that within the design of the building. Similarly, they wanted to provide this building that was somewhat eclectic and felt established. So, you know, we used precasts as a feature element within this building and to not only educate when neighboring clients and to talk about different building systems or components of a building, but also to, you know, create this idea that they're established. So we worked with Enterprise to, you know, embed their logo within a insulated precast panel and then use that as a showcase at the front of the building. And then, you know, these photos here show you that logo, which is McCarthy's logo, and they call it the dude. And then, so in this design, we also showcase the precast on the interior of the building so that when McCarthy's walking someone through and explaining precast, they can show the finished exterior side and then what the interior side looks like as well. Yeah, that's very cool. I like the way that you've incorporated that in and McCarthy being, you know, setting that vision and then you're able to bring that vision to life. But I could talk about that for the next hour, but I wanted to get to introduce in Marty. Marty is an AIA. He's an architect. He's the business development manager at Enterprise Precast Concrete. He has a great relationship with Matt. So, you know, Enterprise found Marty as an architect, as a practicing architect for 16 years, and they brought him into the precast world for the last couple years. But to him, I think it just seems like a lifetime. I don't know if that means you love precast concrete or if you, it's just a grueling life as a precast salesman. So I think everybody knows a little bit about Enterprise. So we've had a couple of speakers from Enterprise. They have two plants, one in Omaha and one in Corsicana, Texas. Both are AA plants. So since Marty and Matt have such a great working relationship, I'm just going to just turn the controls over to them and let those guys kind of roll with everything. Is that okay with you, Marty? Yeah, no, that's great. That'd be great. Cool. All right. So we've got a series of questions here that, you know, I wanted to ask Matt to kind of give you guys some insight on how an architect looks at precast and how they gain a better understanding of precast. So I might interject as well on some of this, because as Randy said, I spent 16 years in architecture as an architect. And so I've been on both sides, having done a handful of precast projects. But, you know, so I've got a little bit of experience on both sides of the fence in this situation. So Matt, can you just talk a little bit about the most efficient method, for architects to learn about precast concrete? I mean, obviously, before I did my first precast project, there's a lot of hesitancy and sort of a little bit of fear in not knowing how it goes together and what it can do. Yeah, absolutely. So I think, you know, one way an architect could be explained is, you know, they're kind of like a jack-of-all-trades, master of none, right? We need to understand everything really well, for the most part, but then also identify when specialists are needed in a variety of ways and how things come together. So like precast, for example, you know, I recognize that I'm not an expert in it. I know enough to guide the direction of it. So when I need to dive deeper on a specific detail or component of design, you know, one of the first steps is, you know, what's shown here is I'll look at the PCI design manuals. And quite honestly, I'll also call up a colleague within the industry, Martin, or talk to another architect, potentially, and brainstorm ideas and understand what the true solutions are. You know, one thing that I would encourage the group to be aware of is that, you know, a lot of architects who are younger in their career or less experienced may not have that confidence or understanding yet. So I think we'll hit on the topic of relationships quite a bit here during today's presentation. But what I would recommend that you all could do is, you know, help them understand that you do know precast and you can help them and be a resource to understand different building systems. Yeah, that's some of them. What about, you know, obviously, we all, everyone's aware of Lunch and Learns, you know, do you find those to be beneficial? I mean, obviously, with COVID here, the last couple of years has been more virtual versus in person, which, you know, I guess, for us, it's much more beneficial if it's in person. But, you know, do you think younger architects can find a tremendous amount of value in Lunch and Learns as well? Absolutely. As design professionals continuing education, we have requirements to meet that. Lunch and Learns are a great source for that, but also to learn and explore new systems. You know, often, like, we may be working on design of a building, and it's kind of like the stars line, right? Lunch and Learn will take place and it'll be on precast, for example, and we're like, shoot, you know, I'm working through my project right now. And that looks like the perfect situation or the exact situation I have. So, you know, getting in front of them often definitely helps. And, and then, you know, after that, just making yourself available. And so then the architects feel comfortable to walk up to you and ask you questions. Sure, sure. Okay. If you hit the next slide, Randy. All right, so we talked about effective methods, you know, for precast producers to support a firm. I mean, obviously, this is a big one. You want to be, you know, as a business development person, I want to be your first call. You know, what are some effective ways to make sure that, you know, when that potential project with precast shows up, you know, hey, let's, let's call Marty and see what he thinks. How, you know, what's the most effective way for us to support you guys in your efforts as you design buildings? Absolutely. You know, it's, I experienced a lot of similarities, right, in my role where, you know, I'm interacting with clients and establishing and building and maintaining relationships. So we've, you know, we've, we've got very similar situations. And so I try to be sensitive to, you know, not being annoying and making sure I'm adding value. I think adding value is probably the biggest thing, right? And then building that trust, you know? So once, you know, I'm like, hey, Marty, I got a, I got a question on something. Can you help me? And if Marty says, you know what, honestly, I'm not the best person to answer that question, but I'll find that person. That's almost one of those situations that builds more trust than someone just trying to say, hey, you know what, let me try and figure this out for you kind of thing, right? Because then, you know, they're, they're being genuine and authentic. And for me, that's what I appreciate and try to operate that way as well. Yeah. Yep. And then, you know, I think it's part of that building trust is one of the, you know, one of the things, you know, sometimes there's projects where precast makes complete sense. And there's other times where, you know, as an architect, you know, you want to be, if it doesn't make sense and it's not the ideal situation, let's, let's, you know, I mean, sometimes it isn't the, the ideal product for, for a solution. You know, I think as an architect, I wanted to hear that from, from my, you know, from the people that I trusted and leaned on. I think that's part of that trust, really building that trusting relationship as well. So. I agree. I agree wholeheartedly. Cause I think that also correlates to the architect and owner relationship and the owner's relationship with, with, you know, the, the contractors as well, because, you know, that information will carry on. And, you know, we all want to know as soon as possible if we're making a bad decision, right? And if you give me a straight answer and say, hey, this isn't the right solution for your project, I'll appreciate that the sooner the better. So, you know, sometimes delivering hard information is the best thing to do. Sure. Yep. Okay, so this is kind of an interesting one. I think this is a good question. You know, when you go to a, when you've obviously visited our plant more than once, and you've probably been to other plants as well, but what part of our production process do you find, do you find interesting as an architect? You know, I think sometimes you, you know, we bring them in, you know, we have an architect come take a look at some samples and maybe we don't give the tour, but, you know, when you're visiting, what's interesting in a precast plant, I guess, is what the real question is. Yeah, I think there's a big misconception about architects and design professionals that, you know, we only care about what it looks like, right? And that is a big part of it, but it's also to get it to successfully look right, you need to know how it comes together, right? So with that, it's like with a lot of building materials, knowing the sizes, you know, the max limitations of design or construction, because the way a joint may come together is essential to maybe a grand revision of design. So we want to know that, and by touring the plant and seeing the bed sizes and having that level of communication, understand what the capacities are, and then how we can make informed design decisions around that, definitely helps. Similarly, you know, wandering through a yard, you know, you might see some panels from another project or something, and it's like, oh, I've never thought about that before, you know? And it plants a seed, and then it creates an opportunity for someone to think about that in a different way for a future project. Yeah, yeah, no, I totally agree. I think, you know, sometimes, especially when it comes to just looking at, you know, a sample, and it's easy to just say, okay, we're just going to walk right to take a look at the samples and, you know, get the approval or the A or an A, and then leave. You know, to me, that's a missed opportunity to get somebody in the plant to, like you said, I think understanding a product's limitations, or maybe what it can do that, you know, that was greater than what you thought it could do, is a huge part of just seeing the process. And a lot of times, you know, when we talk later about, you know, good and bad information, as far as having to give that to an architect, I think getting you guys in the plant is a huge, huge benefit, and just understanding the limitations of what the product can and can do. You know, similarly, too, it's also like getting to see behind the curtain a little bit, you know, with some general contractors, you know, if we know that they're going to be working on a future project, you know, and I drive by one of their job sites, and their job site's a disaster and stuff, I'm like, oh, you know, and similarly, if we're walking through a plant, you know, just observing safety protocols, or how, you know, how different things are managed, and it's nice to see that. Yeah. All right. Oh, great. So, yeah, here's another project. Like I said before, I like using projects as an example to tell stories, and I think we can learn from a lot from it. So, this is a project that's actually got a certificate of occupancy yesterday, and it was a unique office building design that we did here just north of Omaha, and there's not a lot of precast on it, and if you go to the next slide. So, often when we're doing metal framed buildings, you know, this detail where the building meets the ground is critical, and it's critical for a variety of factors, because of we want to be conscious of thermal bridging, water infiltration, you know, in environments like the Midwest and northern states with snow, salt, and all those types of things on the ground, you know, we want to consider how that experience takes place. So, you know, there was very little precast on this project, but we selected precast because of its great qualities for this kind of location at the base of a building. So, ultimately, we put together this detail to give it a nice refined aesthetic, but also to, you know, lift that curtain wall and storefront off of grade to protect it, and then this also allowed us to create this detail that helped manage thermal bridging through the foundation there. So, these are just some examples of the drawings we would prepare in our construction documents for precast to show the design intent. So, this is another project. This is a parking garage that's just starting construction here just south of Omaha, and it's a post-tension parking structure that's the primary structure, but we selected precast for the stair towers because we worked with Enterprise during the design process to help, and they helped us evaluate the project and understand some of the constraints of construction and logistics of panel sizes. So, ultimately, we selected all precast for the stair towers, and then also helped with the aesthetics. So, during the design process, what we'll do, we meet with the owners, we'll show renderings, you know, and I'm abbreviating the process dramatically, but we'll put together material samples, and this is an example of, like, all the materials on the building, and, you know, we get just some precast samples from Enterprise or other suppliers, and then we'll use those and show those to the owner, and then the owner will sign off on it or agree, and then that serves as the basis for us to finish our construction documents. One unique thing about this project was that we had selected three form liners that we were exploring during the design process. So, this was a hard bid project, and the owner had a hard time understanding the form liners from just looking at the form liner and our renderings. So, one approach that I looked at doing to give them what they needed, but also make sure that we considered, you know, all the potential bidders within the project and not ask, you know, Enterprise or anyone else to create four-by-four mock-ups at risk, because I guess I believe I don't think that's fair, right, to do that. So, ultimately, within the bid docs, we put all three form liners in there and selected the most expensive one as the base bid, and then once the contract was awarded, the mock-ups were made of the three, and we went out on site with the owner so that they could look at them and ultimately make a selection. So, this is just an example of us all out there and selecting the form liner, and then ultimately, they didn't select the base bid, which was most expensive. They selected the second one, and so then it results in a credit back to the owner. So, for the most part, it's kind of a win situation, right, in my mind. Enterprise didn't have to build mock-ups in advance of being awarded a contract, and then the GC didn't have to carry a cost other than what was in their bid for all of this, and then ultimately, the owner could make their selection, and they ended up with a credit. So, I think it worked out to be a pretty good process from my perspective. Yeah, I would agree. I think, you know, a lot of times, you don't get to see those form liners when you see them in a two-by-two scenario or even a one-by-one. You don't get a good grasp of the aesthetic quality of it. So, I think, you know, the way you guys wrote that spec was really, really pretty crafty and I think led to a process that was much, much easier and much cleaner to get approval on the final sample. So, all right. So, let's talk a little bit about working up front with a precast producer. You know, how much upfront design work do you, you know, should we expect to have to do to help, you know, a project move toward precast and ultimately be successful? I think that's the main thing at the end of the day. Yeah, I mean, you know, we're all similar in this in a lot of senses, right, because as architects, we have to make, you know, analyze projects this way as well, right? If it's a huge project, you know, and we want to win it and maybe we need some work or, you know, there's a variety of considerations that come into play, which ultimately are business decisions. But, you know, I think the rule of thumb is the bigger the project, you know, I think everyone's more willing to do a little more, right, to try and help and get it moving forward. But, I think at minimum, you know, just having the 12 by 12 samples is ideal and having options for different colors, different finishes. So, like when we look at those former slides for the Lovista Garage, where we had those 12 by 12 samples that us as design professionals can take to an owner and show them and say, you know, this is what we're going to design around to get that approval. I think that's the bare minimum as far as samples. But then also just being available to answer questions and meet, especially in, I think, the design development and construction documents phases to help sit down, do some page turns, look at our details, talk through things. If there's insulated panels, you know, helping us understand how thick the structural panel is so that we can account for our footings and so forth. Those are the big things in my mind. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I think having, you know, the business development side of me and having been on the architecture side, like, definitely from the business development standpoint, you know, I'm going to help as much as I can, provide as much guidance. You know, ultimately, we want this project to be, we want the project to be successful with precast. Because if an architect, you know, works on a project and with precast and it's successful, you're more apt to use precast again. Whereas if we, you know, even if we do that upfront work, and we don't get the project, which I want to win every project, don't get me wrong. But I think the important thing is having it be successful is the big thing for our industry to help, you know, as an architect, if I use a product, and it goes bad, you know, good luck getting me to specify it again, kind of deal. So I think having said on Matt's side, that's kind of my point of view or my, you know, my view on things. Absolutely. Also, this is another one of you guys' project, Matt. Yeah. So this is another parking garage. And so this was another post-tension parking garage. Precast just wasn't the solution for the primary structure on this project. But ultimately, we ended up using precast because the city had some pretty strict design requirements. And so we had on the right there, that's the face brick that was used in a variety of areas of the project for stair towers, and so forth. But then we had some bumper wall panels on one side of the garage, that it just didn't make sense to structurally to use face brick. So ultimately, we chose to do precast panels that match the face brick. And the precast panels obviously had thin brick in them. And, you know, there's spot on match and know, you know, that I think most common people who aren't in the industry wouldn't know the difference between the two. And so I really appreciate this example, how it showcases, you know, the flexibility and use of precast and unique scenarios. So, and once again, you know, we went out on site. In this project, what we did was we just had one panel made for the precast, and then treated that as the mock-up panel to go and review and brought our samples out there. So. All right, so, you know, how should a precast, this is always the fun part, this gets back to that trust, you know, trusting relationship. And so, you know, when something isn't feasible, or something is not turning out well, you know, what's the best way to approach the architect in that scenario? Yeah, honesty. I don't know, that's what I believe is always best, quite candidly. I think just be straightforward and rip the bandaid off and tell them sooner. Because, you know, if we're led to believe that something can be achieved by, you know, talking with whoever, right, and then we go and present that to an owner to help create the owner's vision or achieve their goals, then we're all kind of locked into that idea, right? So, it's a little, you know, old story of garbage in, garbage out, right? So, if we're getting information that's not direct, right, or a good idea, that'll influence our approach, and then ultimately could set up a project, you know, not the best out of the gate. So, yeah. Yeah, I think this gets back a little bit to that, you know, the tour of the plant, understanding, you know, giving the architect a better understanding of the capabilities, just beyond, you know, talking with business development or a project manager about what the potential is for pre-cast as far as its capabilities. So, yeah. You know, just to add on there too, I think, I guess, to rip a band-aid off too, something that can be a little frustrating as architecture design professionals at times is if we're working with, you know, industry partners and, you know, we get a response that, hey, you know, that's something we've never done before, right? Or we don't want to do that, right? Because it's a little risky or something, right? And, you know, we don't necessarily want to put our necks out on the line always either, but being open to exploring ideas to test new positive opportunities is positive for all of us in some sense, right? Because, you know, if you've got the ability to, say, or work with an architect and, you know, they kind of test an idea or push the limits a little bit, then you can get on board and use that within the market as well and say, hey, look, we're the first ones to do this, right? And then that gives you a little more, I guess, credibility within the marketplace potentially as well. Yeah, I think that, you know, that's good, you know, when architects, they want to see what others are doing and try to push the envelope and that leads to new things like you said. All right, so for not meeting quality expectations and, you know, I think every precaster's run into that situation when you pour the first couple panels and, you know, I sometimes get pulled in down in our yard to say, hey, can you take a look at this? Like, give us your architect eye, you know? And a lot of times I feel like, you know, in our plan, we've got some folks that have more critical eye for things than I do as an architect or as a new person within the industry. But when we're not meeting expectations, you know, what should we do? How do we tackle that issue? Yeah, once again, rip that bandaid off, right? Be honest, be direct about it, get it out there sooner. Anytime anyone sits on a problem longer, it just makes it worse, right? So I'd just be in favor of getting ahead of it. And then the other thing too, because, you know, I face these situations all the time as well, right? Something comes up that wasn't planned for. So I think the approach I always choose to take is rather than deliver a problem, deliver a solution, right? So identify what the problem is, figure out what some solutions are, and then take that to the individual and say, you know what, this came up, but here's a couple ideas on how we think we should solve it. And here, this is the idea we think would, that would be best. And talk through it and collaborate and make it happen. Yeah, yeah. No one's perfect, unfortunately, right? So yeah, no, I mean, it's like you said, as architects, it's like, you know, precast maybe one little portion of the project, but man, there's a ton of things that go into a building that can be challenging. So, you know, coming with solutions I think is definitely the right idea. Yeah, and that strengthens that relationship and then builds that trust again too, so. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that's a really good full circle moment as you talk about it. You know, it's like, we're all friends when everything's going well, but when something goes wrong, that's when the relationship gets strained. And how you respond, how you respond to that and being able to hit it, like you said, pull that bandaid off as a, hey, I'm going to take ownership of what we did or didn't do. And here's what we've discovered. Here's what we think is the best solution for you based on what we've learned from you for the last six months to six years we've been working on this project. Yeah. And then be able to say, what's your thoughts? And then I think from a precast producer's perspective, They also have to be open-minded. Yes, you are the expert. You are the one in the plant. You're the one that's been doing precast for 20, 30 plus years. You got all your heads together. But just maybe that architect might come in with a fresh eye that goes back to your, you know, look outside the box a little bit. You may have something. I think we've all had the stories to where, like you said, Marty, that a producer in a plant call you as a salesperson. You go out in the plant. You look at something and go, yeah, that's not good. Or that's exactly what they wanted. I think it's a great thing that we have it. We have experienced team members that they have a sharp, sharp eye. And a lot of times, as I kind of go down there and think about it, as if I'm just showing up and I'm not, you know, I don't know anything's wrong with this panel or that they think is wrong with this panel. And it's like, well, take a look at this. What do you think? And it's like, guys, this panel is fine. Or guys, you know, your eye is too sharp. You're being too critical of your work. Or sometimes, you know, sometimes it's like, yeah, no, we need to fix it. Or, you know, let's try to patch it or show them what the problem is and just, you know, come clean and let's try to figure out a solution on how to tackle the issue. Yeah, but you got to remember, Marty, you're in sales, you cause all the problems. I know, that's right. All problems start with sales. That's Precast 101. Yeah. So, I got some questions coming in. So, if you have any questions out there, please, you know, send them over. Now's a really good time. One of the things you said, Matt, was consulting with other architects. And one of the questions is, how often do you consult with other architects about a solution? And is it usually internal? I'm adding this part. Is it internal more in your firm? Or do you have colleagues in other firms that you reach out to also? Or is that taboo? Do you not call? Don't call the guy with the other firm. Yeah, it's typically within our own organization. It's pretty rare that you'll call up someone from another organization to collaborate or ask questions. But, you know, I mean, it's a tight group, right? Especially in certain, some communities that, you know, everyone knows everyone. We have a professional organization, the AIA, that provides, you know, different educational opportunities and things like that. So, it's not taboo to call up someone else from another firm, but it's not common at all. So, you know, there'll be, you know, we've got a ton of architects within our office and globally. And all of us have our different unique experiences, and we can reach out to one another. And design is really about collaboration. And it's not just with, you know, people within these walls, but with people outside the walls as well. So, you know, I can say, hey, you know, so and so, do you have a second to look at this detail with me? And let's, you know, explore it and see how we can figure out the best solution. Gotcha. So, again, this is just me talking, but you always hear about products or services that, you know, one bad review can negate 100 good reviews. So, if something does go wrong on a precast project, how does that affect future precast projects? Or if something does go right on a precast project, how does it affect future projects? I think, you know, I think that is present in all facets of life, right? And, you know, and then it's also how people, you know, respond or react. I don't think, I guess I'm always opposed to reacting, and you should respond to things, right? And it's like, if there is a problem, right, if someone follows up and, like, continues through and shows ownership of it or helps find a solution, then, you know, that'll lighten the blow as far as long-term implications on whether or not you choose to do that again. So, yeah. Hopefully, that answers it, yeah. Well, yeah, you're getting there for me. For me, it's about understanding architect's risk, you know, empathy goes a long way. How do you walk, how does a precast, specifically a precast project manager who's been handed Marty's crappy job, no, just kidding, he's been handed, who's in a situation to where they're not comfortable, maybe they do have that critical eye, and they have to go to an architect and sit down with them and say, please, you know, let's work together to get where we need to go. So, what risks do architects have from design all the way through, if you could take a couple minutes to explain that, so we can have, as producers, a good understanding of where your risks lie and how we can help you prevent or reduce those risks? Absolutely. And I guess just to be direct about it, nothing, and I think one of the things that irritates me the most within our profession is if during the design phase I'm meeting with someone, and I'll remove it from precast just because of the group. So, say I meet with the door hardware supplier, right, and he tells me I can do something, right, and I cross-check it because we have to do our due diligence as design professionals and not just take one person's word, right, and I'll cross-check it with another one or, you know, do further research and so forth, or talk with another architect, and we have like a QAQC process as well so that we, you know, everything's thoroughly reviewed. So, you know, if we come to the determination that, yeah, okay, this is the right way to go, and then we go through design, and then we go through and get into construction, and then they're like, oh, we can't do it. And then I'm faced with the situation where I have to go to an owner and say, you know, owner, this isn't going to work out. That is probably one of the most difficult conversations to have. And if we were led a certain direction during design by, you know, an organization or an entity with a high level of confidence that it could be achieved, and then during construction it can't, that's one of the things that will kind of rough my feathers and burn some bridges. Yeah, that's one. The other one I've always been taught by architects is protective of billable hours, right? I mean, if we can, as a precast producer, we can provide a product and the supporting services that makes your life so much easier. We're enclosing a, you know, 100,000 square foot skin, 80% of it or 60% of it, somewhere in that range is precast, and it's a few meetings, a couple of meetings at the precast site, and now you've got the whole wall system there. Interior walls exposed, exterior walls exposed, that saves you all a lot of billable hours. Is that something that transcends through your organization when you start looking at specifically precast and how it can save you all time and effort? Yes, I do think so on, you know, on the right project, right? As architects, design professionals, we are operating a business, right? So we do think about those things as well, but fundamentally, you know, we're licensed and we're not going to choose, at least the way my team and I work and our organization works, we're not going to choose a system to increase our margin, you know, of profitability. We're going to select a system that's right for the project and right for the owner because that's, you know, what we believe in. So hopefully that answers your question. Well, it does. It gives a very realistic perspective for the producers on the call. I think that's part of what this is all about. It's having you here specifically as an architect, being able to get your perspective, helps draws precast plant people closer to precast sales people so we all can have a little bit of empathy for each other. So that way when Marty brings a project in or another salesperson, project manager initially rolls their eyes, then they can turn around and say, I get it. I get it. We're going to do something we've never done before because it's advancing the industry, it's advancing the relationship, and it's also giving us something fun to do except for big black gray panels. Yeah. Yeah, I think along those lines sometimes, you know, there's projects that I think everyone does because of relationships, right? And, you know, or because of opportunities. And it's thinking about a grander picture often, you know. Yeah, that's exactly right. Another question is about the over-communication Yeah, I kind of get where this is going. Number one, it's like, yes, we want to keep a relationship with the architect, want to keep them informed of what's going on. But at the same time, we don't want to over-communicate. We don't want to open the door to conversations that don't need to be had. We don't need to, you know, put a fear factor out there. We also don't want to be annoying. So, kind of rephrasing this question, how would you define over-communication or what kind of information that you would want to see ongoing as a project is going through a plant? Yeah, I think, you know, like everything, it's somewhat situational. And the best way I can kind of communicate that too is, you know, if I'm working with some clients from an architecture side, it's like, you know, I start to understand a client's communication preference, right? One client may want to be in the weeds and know absolutely everything that's going on, right? So, if that's his desire or her desire, I'm going to deliver that. But if another one is like, I'm hiring you as the professional, take care of it, give me periodic updates or whatever, then that's the way I'll deliver. And I think that's probably a similar approach as you all are looking at different architects that are out there. So, yeah. But, you know, also too, when problems arise, get them out there as soon as possible. Yeah. What about you, Marty? Have you, what's your all's policy of that over-communicating? You know, it's just, I think, like Matt said, it's trying to figure out, you know, with touch points with different architects that I have relationships with is, you know, you know, we will try to keep them informed and abreast as the project's moving through the thing. And I want to be that person that they can contact if they feel like, hey, they came out and they saw something that they didn't like or, you know, wanted to know wanted to know something was going bad. I want to be that person that they reach out to and contact. But as far as my contacts with, you know, on the business development side, I try to identify who those people are that, you know, like to get together regularly and who those people are that, hey, just touch base with them once in a while. And, you know, each one of those relationships is at a different level as far as, you know, Matt and I, we may go grab lunch, you know, once every quarter or six months. And we may not talk about a ton of projects, may not talk about precast, but, you know, it's just building that relationship so that, you know, Matt knows if he does have some potential project that could turn into precast, like, you know, I want to be his first call. And he knows that I'm going to shoot him straight and tell him whether it makes sense to provide precast on this project, or maybe there's, you know, another solution that he doesn't see a reason that we shouldn't use precast. But, you know, I think it's just trying to figure out, you know, who those people are and how they operate and how they work, how they, their touch points, you know, how regular they are. And because the last thing you want to be is like, hey, you're bugging me, you know, you're bugging the crap out of me. Can you, you know, can you stop? I get it. You're, you know, you want to sell precast. And you don't want to be that guy either. So, it's going to tell him to get lost for years. And he just, I know, I can't take a hint. They got bug spray for that. Yeah. Another question is about samples. Again, trying to paraphrase a little bit off the screen. And, you know, it takes a lot of time, a lot of effort, a lot of money to make samples, you know, building a special form, pouring a four by four. But how important, I'll embellish a little bit. How important is it for you, Matt, to feel comfortable about the mix finish selection, especially when you start looking at color ranges? Because I'm sure Marty's going to bring up to you, hey, the mix you picked, it's going to be a little rangy. We really need to talk about this. How important is it for you for producing, and again, it's a goodwill feeling, but it's also a risk reduction feeling, it's an owner relationship feeling, is being able to insist that, yeah, we really like to see those range samples so we're all on the same page. How important is that for you in our project? Yeah. Situational, again, I would say. So, you know, I want confidence in the decision, right? And if I hear from Marty or someone else that they're not confident about it, then that means I'm not confident about it. So if I don't have confidence in it, then I'll probably say, well, let's explore a different solution, right? Because then my neck's out on the line. And I guess that's kind of how I look at it. You know, and once again, if it is a riskier solution, you know, and we have a conversation about that and say, hey guys, is this something you want to explore, right? And let's figure out a good way to explore this so that the collective stakeholder group of owners, contractors, and everyone can get on board with it and then have confidence in that decision moving forward. So maybe it is, you know, paying up front for a mock-up, which might be the right thing to do for certain projects. Yeah, I mean, I've got three examples. One's as-cast gray. Another is when you got white cement with half white, half black aggregate because it never disperses cleanly all the way across. Or you have a highly pigmented mix like red or black acid wash. I mean, all three of those are beautiful when you execute them, but can be pretty risky when you have an untrained eye. And I think range samples can help you get into those realms. Communicating with a pre-caster to say, yeah, you could use it in a stripe, but don't use it in a panel. You can use it in small areas. So I think that's kind of where you're going with that is that if there are risks, then it's clearly communicated to you so you can clearly communicate those same risks back to the owner so you all can collectively make a decision. Does that sum up what you responded with? Absolutely. But as I guess, you know, it's also kind of a tough question for me to answer because as an architect and a design professional, my approach to buildings is I want to be honest about the materials, right? I'm not going to make, you know, put like a metal panel that looks like wood on a building because that's not honest in my opinion, right? And, you know, having a pigmented precast panel that's pink or red, I don't want to do that, right? I'm going to choose a red brick if that's the right choice. So that's why it's a little hard for me to answer that one, right? We have red thin brick that you can have. How about that? Which might be the right solution, right? That ties both the authenticity, you get clay with the, you know, innovation and the savings of precast. So we're halfway home with that one. Yeah. Okay. So we're getting pretty close to time and so we'll go ahead and wrap it up here. I really want to thank you guys both and I know Nicole, I'll pass it to you in just a second, Nicole, but I wanted to also let everybody know that this is the final workshop for the spring. It does wrap up our Acceptability of Appearance workshops or series. Our next workshops will be in the fall. We hope to start them back up in September, so we'll have a few months off. These works, the, what I want to explain to everybody is that the topics for these workshops are created or established, identified at the Architectural Precast Concrete Committee. So if you have any topics that you would like for us to explore and bring in some experts to discuss, or maybe you have a topic that you would like to share with all the producers, then by all means give Gary Reed a call or an email or myself and we'll be able to put that as part of the survey. We'll send out to all the members of the Architectural Precast Committee here over the summer so we can start to establish what those topics are for next year. Another point on the docket would be converting these back to in-person or we might do both. We might continue to do the workshops monthly, webinars, and we may go ahead and start getting these to go in-person, which I'm a favor of because I think it's important that we all start to network a little bit more face-to-face now that we're hopefully beyond the pandemic. So with that, I'm going to thank both of the speakers. I think you did, of course, you did a fabulous job and I appreciate everybody showing up today and I'll pass it back to you, Nicole. Thank you, Randy. On behalf of PCI, I'd like to thank our presenters for a great presentation. If you have any further questions about today's webinar, please email marketing at pci.org. Thank you again. Have a great day and stay safe.

communication

collaboration

architects

precast producers

precast production process

capabilities of precast concrete

proactive

information

solutions